Oral History: Donald Wine

[The following oral history documents the experiences of Drake University student Donald Wine in the early 1940's - attending Drake University and living in what is now the Drake neighborhood.]

Name: Donald Wine
Date of Interview: November 7, 2010
Location: Wine home, 2930 Druid Hill Drive, Des Moines, IA.
Interviewer: Grady Reuler
Project: Drake Neighborhood Association Historical Survey

GR: This is Grady Reuler, today is November 7th, 2010. I am interviewing for the first time, Mr. Donald Wine. This interview is taking place at 2930 Druid Hill Drive in Des Moines, Iowa. This interview is sponsored by the Drake Neighborhood Association and is apart of their oral history project. Is that information correct?

DW: Yes.

GR: I would like to begin with a little bit of background. So, what years did you attend Drake University?

DW: Nineteen-forty to 1946.

GR: And the year of your graduation?

DW: Nineteen forty-six.

GR: And what was your degree in?

DW: Political science.

GR: Before we began recording, you were discussing you lived in an attic, correct? (.53-.58)

DW: Well, I went to Drake on a scholarship. I was a debater in high school and had a four-year scholarship to the what was then Iowa State Teacher's College, that's now University of Northern Iowa; and I didn't want to be a teacher. Our minister in our home church had graduated from Drake, and he talked me into going to Drake. I had an aunt and uncle who lived in Des Moines, and they agreed to give me a room for the first semester; and that was on Forty-Eighth Street, 1328 Forty-Eighth Street. And I lived there for a semester; I bought a streetcar pass and took the streetcar to Drake. And in the second semester, I got a few jobs and was able to move closer to Drake at the 2400 block of Carpenter [Avenue]; and it was as a house that was—had at least two floors of Drake students; it seemed like there was a widow lady who was the landlord, and she rented out the second floor to Drake students. And the attic—which was quite large, with corners that a lot of attics have—anyway, two music students lived up there and they needed a third student so I went up there as a third student in the second semester of my freshman year; and I stayed there in that location until I moved into the fraternity house which wouldn't have been until 1942 I started in 1940, and January of ’41 I moved into Carpenter and I moved out in the fall of ’42; and I moved into the SAE [Sigma Alpha Epsilon Fraternity] house at—on Thirty-fourth Street, and then I was taken into service in February of ’43. (.59 to 3:32.6)

GR: You mentioned your aunt and uncle [Sylvester and Rae Ragland]

DW: Yes.

GR: So you had connections?

DW: My mother had lived with my aunt and uncle (they had no children), and she had lived with them in Oelwein many years before; that's my hometown, Oelwein, Iowa. And they agreed that they would give me a room, they had an extra room, but they didn't—she, my aunt, was too feeble to make meals. She said, “We can't provide board, but we can provide a room for Don.” So I stayed there the first semester. (3.43 to 4.18.8)

GR: Do you remember any kind of particulars about the room? Any kind of description?

DW: It was just an ordinary room with a bed and a bureau. And I sent my laundry home to my mother in the thing that carried laundry, and she fixed it and sent it back. You know it is quite a ways from Drake—I walked some of the time, but most of the time I had a streetcar pass and took the streetcar to Drake. I also had a board job at the end of Forty-eighth [Street], at Waveland [Cafe]; it was a Greek restaurant, and I washed dishes for my meals. That was the first semester. I think I quit that job in the second semester. I got a job as a postmaster at Drake, which took care of my tuition totally, and I had another job that took care of my room and board. (4:24-5:26)

GR: And when you were living with your aunt—your aunt and uncle? [Narrator replies yes]—was there anybody else with you, or it was just you?

DW: No, it was all-alone. (5:33 to 5:34)

GR: So all close family.

DW: Yes, and I went home a lot that first semester. Hitchhiked home. Hitchhiking was popular among college students at that time, now it is almost illegal to hitchhike; they discourage it, but there is still some going on. (5:38 to 5:58)

GR: Did you know of any other students living with their family in that area like you?

DW: No, I didn’t know of anybody else in that area. Most of them lived around Drake, like I did the second semester. (6:05 to 6:16)

GR: Can you recall what kind of forms—what were the most common forms of off-campus student housing? I know you mentioned that you lived with your relatives, but what other kind of accommodations were provided to students?

DW: Well, they had dorm rooms.... they had ––the men’s dorm, was called the Kennel [Jewett Hall, also known as the “Kennel”, was the first men’s dormitory, it was completed in 1940] and I don’t know how many rooms it had; there was a boys’ dorm and a girls’ dorm, a men’s dorm and women’s dorm; and I think, it was—I thought it was too expensive for the amount of money that I had. Of course I paid nothing to my aunt and uncle; and I paid, I don’t remember how much I paid on Carpenter, but it wasn’t very much. It was a third of an attic, it wasn’t very expensive, and no food of course, had to have our own; we went out for lunch. There were a number of places in the Dogtown they call it, you know the area, the commercial area by Drake, between Twenty-Fourth and Twenty-Fifth [Streets], on University [Avenue]—number of restaurants. (6:40 to 7:58)

GR: Did students, if they couldn’t afford to live on campus, the majority of them either live directly off campus, in close proximity to the campus?

DW: Yes, the area around Drake has always been heavily populated with Drake students. I think it is to this day. And you could find accommodations easily within easy walking distance, and of course where I lived was a half block from campus. So my friends in the music department their building was right there, you know at Twenty-Fourth and Carpenter, [Avenue], [Interviewer clarifies Howard Hall] yea, Howard Hall [Howard Hall is located on Twenty-Fifth and Carpenter Ave]. So they were actually a half a block from where they spent most of their time; and mine, I was, at that time, a Bible student, my class was a block down the street, next to the Christian church. So it was all walking distance. (8:18 to 9:24)

GR: Do you recall any kind of competition for living accommodations?

DW: No, it was—in fact, I think they were looking for someone to fill in the third space. That attic had been for three and there were only two there, and they advertised, you know, one place, and I took it. There were other Bible students in that facility, and they lived on the second floor and they told me about this opening, on the third floor. (9:32 to 10:04)

GR: And this was during that time you were living with your aunt and uncle?

DW: Well I was—yes, when I found out about this other place, yes.

GR: Do you recall who published that information? Just the university?

DW: Well there was word of mouth; I heard it at the Bible College. I don’t think it was published. ....the Times-Delphic [student newspaper] was in business and—but I don’t think I saw it there. [Long Pause] I was very active in the–well, the main administrative building where it still is. They had, I don’t know what you’d call it, a room where you could find odd jobs. We called it the Odd-Job room; and it would include raking leaves in the fall, putting up storm windows, doing any other kind of yard work, for people who would pay thirty-five cents an hour for that activity, and I did a lot of that on the west side of Des Moines. (10:22 to 11:33)

GR: Do you recall other types of other rental housing available?

DW: Well, there as I say, most of the houses around there had rental available and—I didn’t know specifically, I wouldn’t remember anybody that was a close friend of mine in any other facility, except in the dorm rooms. There were a lot in the dorm rooms that were friends of mine. (11:48 to 12:13)

GR: Were they mostly undergraduate students?

DW: What’s that?

GR: Were they all undergraduate students?

DW: There weren’t very many graduate students, there was a law school and that was all of course graduate; and there were master’s and doctorate degrees available, but I didn’t know many in that school, at that time. And there was also a divinity school, so there was—and I knew some of those students; that was a graduate degree, I mean you could get a degree—a, B.S. or a B.A., a L.A., a degree in ministry, and then you could also get a doctor of divinity, or a master’s of [divinity]. It was a school for ministers in the Christian faith, the Church of Christ, Disciple Church; and the Bible school was a Disciple school. (12:25-13:31)

GR: And do you recall if those graduates, who attended the divinity school or say the law school, did they live in off-campus housing as well?

DW: I think most of them did, yes. There was no graduate dorm that I recall. (13:45-13:54)

GR: Did you live with any graduate students, sufficiently older students than you were?

DW: Oh yes, —in the college, the Bible College, there were always all kinds of older students who were already preaching. Around Des Moines there are a number of Christian churches, and they would obtain—and many of these churches used Bible students; they were small churches, so they couldn’t afford a full-time minister live in, and they would have these Bible College students come in for the weekend, and I did that for a period of time. (14:14 to 14:50)

GR: Were there any desirable or undesirable places to live?

DW: Well, I didn’t know any undesirable; they were all kind of ordinary, I mean they weren’t fancy, but in most cases you have bathing facilities and shave— you know water and bathroom facilities available; and in most cases you have heat and cool—not much cooling. In those days, we didn’t go to school when it was hot. We started late in September and quit in late May, so there were no—I didn’t know of anyplace that had air conditioning. Cause—if you wanted to be air-conditioned, you went to movies, the only place that really had it. (15:00 to 15:59)

GR: What were the criteria for knowing where you wanted to live?

DW: Well, I think it was money, you know, the regulator: If you could, afford to live in the dorm rooms; if you couldn’t afford it, you went out and looked for something cheaper, and most of them were what we would call boarding rooms, now. You boarded there, you didn’t eat there; you just slept there, and maybe some of them had cooking facilities, ours didn’t; we didn’t have cooking facilities—we didn’t do any cooking in our room. We ate out all the time, in other words. (16:18 to 17:03)

GR: Do you recall if anybody was unhappy with their boarding situation?

DW: No, I don’t think so. Never heard anybody say anything about. You know, it was—we just come out of the worst—we were still in the deep Depression, and people were glad to have a place, have a roof over their head, and a place to eat and sleep. That was it. The Great Depression was a great leveler; everybody was struggling to make out, and so every ordinary—living was ordinary living, pretty much the same. Everybody had about the same facilities. (17:15 to 18:05)

GR: So you started living with your close relatives and then you moved into, if I’m correct, a boarding house with two other music students?

DW: Yeah, two other music students.

GR: Did you, know them prior?

DW: No, I did not know those two. As I told you, I was in the Bible College and there were some Bible students on the second floor of that building, and they told me about the vacancy in the attic. And there were already two music students; it was a natural place for them, they were half a block from their, Howard Hall, so they were already there. And I met them when I moved in; they were really nice guys, Dick Maxfield, and Harry Ewald and they were really great guys. One of them, Maxfield played the marimba—I remember that was his musical instrument. I didn’t know they taught marimba at Drake, but they must have, he was—that was his instrument. And Ewald was a pianist, and they did a lot of practicing over at Howard Hall. (18:34 to 19:32)

GR: So it seems as if there is a lot of community, not community, commuting.

DW: Yeah, right, there was a lot of camaraderie at that time between all the students, and Drake was a little smaller on full-time students than it is today. Although we used to say that it was a college of four or five thousand, but a lot of those were night students or other type, part-time, students. On-campus was not a huge number of people. (19:42 to 20:13)

GR: So a commuter campus?

DW: What?

GR: A commuter campus?

DW: A lot of Des Moines people went to Drake. There were some—it wasn’t as many adult students as there are, probably are today. I don’t remember that as being a large part of the community at that time. It was a development that came later. (20:22 –20:50)

GR: So the second boarding house you lived in was located where? After you have moved from living with your aunt and uncle.

DW: Twenty-four hundred block of Carpenter Avenue.

GR: And how many students did it hold?

DW: There were three in my room, and it seemed like there were about maybe five or six down on the second floor, quite a large number, and most of them were Bible students; they did preaching on weekends. (21:19-21:36)

GR: Was it—did you ever feel like it was overcrowded or anything like that?

DW: No, no, well you didn’t have much room, you’d had a corner of your own. You had your own desk, and you had your own footlocker or whatever it was that kept your food, and I don’t know, maybe some hanging, some closet to hang your—you didn’t have many clothes; you know, I think I only had one suit, and you know you barely—you didn’t need much room. I didn’t think we were over crowded; I thought we had adequate space. I was happy there. And in the fraternity, it was pretty much the same. I moved to Thirty-Fourth Street. It was pretty much the same. I had, I think, five roommates; five of us in one room at the fraternity. And we had a common sleeping area on the porch, a sun porch, and without heat; so I had to have a lot of covers; it got pretty cold in the winter. (21:45-23:03)

GR: To your knowledge do you know if anybody chose to live in a Greek fraternity because of the housing situation at Drake?

DW: No. The fraternity housing was not any different than most of the other housing available around Drake. It was similar. I had three roommates in my attic; I had five roommates in my fraternity at Drake. And it was pretty much similar. It was a little more expensive because they served food, so I ate all my meals at the fraternity house. (23:22-24:02)

GR: Can you recall the impact—what the impact of the automobile had on off-campus living? For example, did cars allow students to frequent stores and restaurants further away from campus?

DW: Well, of course it made places a little further away accessible. But, there were, there weren’t too many cars on campus; I had a car in my second semester, a very—not a very good car, but I had a car because I had a church [pastorate] that was twenty-five miles away, so I had to have a car to get to that church. But most of the students didn’t have a car. You had no parking problems. I remember when I was in the fraternity, there was only one of our members who had a car, and he had a convertible ’cause his father owned a garage in Des Moines. But most students did not have cars. And we did a lot of walking from the fraternity house to Drake, and you know that is seven or eight blocks to the nearest point. (24:37-25:44)

GR: Do you recall what the parking situation was like?

DW: Parking?

GR: Yeah.

DW: You could park anywhere. Even in those days, what is it? [Begins to recall street names] Twenty-Fifth, Twenty-Sixth, Twenty-Eighth Street was open. It’s now closed, you know, between Cowles Library and then the women’s dorm [Morehouse Hall], I don’t know. That walkway was open and you could park there, and Carpenter Avenue was open, you could park on Carpenter; the street up from Carpenter to Forest was open; everything—I don’t even remember they had any parking lots, and now they’re full of parking lots. You go up to Drake now, and every available space is either a house or a dorm or a parking lot, but it wasn’t that way in the forties. The streets were the main availability for parking and they were available. (25:57 to 27:00)

GR: So there was, if I am imagining this correctly, an east side of campus and a west side of campus with that main street [Twenty-Eighth Street] cutting through Cowles Library and Morehouse residence hall?

DW: There wasn’t anything [any part of campus] west of Twenty-Eighth Street. There was a—where the dorms are now on Thirtieth [Street], there was a big convalescent home there [Home for the Aged. The home for the aged was located at 29th street and University, where the Olmstead parking lot is located] Drake didn’t even own it. They had acquired it when that convalescent home I think had financial problems and they built dorms right after the war; but during the time I was there, well I was there after the war too, for one year, ’46, but I stayed in the fraternity house, ’45 to ’46 (27:11 to 28:04)

GR: You served?

DW: I came back and I stayed in the fraternity house, until I graduated and went to law school.

GR: On that note, upon you return to Drake, did you notice any significant changes in the housing situation?

DW: No. No, they were all pretty much the same. I don’t even remember much about the cost, but it couldn’t have been very much. I don’t remember it being a major part of my expenses. I was always worried about tuition and board, food. Those were my big expenses; and then I had a car, I had to keep the car going but gas was twenty cents a gallon, no problem getting gas. Cars were cheap. I think I paid like two hundred dollars for that car; and it worked. A new car was five-seventy-five, a new Ford. So you know, you’re talking about a time when cars were fairly inexpensive. (28:22-29:30)

GR: As opposed to housing.

DW: Yeah.

GR: So for returning servicemen there wasn’t much competition for housing?

DW: No, I don’t think there was any competition, there was plenty of housing and the older students could live further than most of them, many of them did have cars, you know, older cars. So they could get around. All the people in the Bible school that had churches had cars, they had to have cars to go to their churches on the weekends. So there were, I would say—I suppose the law school had cars too, but I didn’t know many law students. (29:47-30:22)

GR: Did you know anybody who lived significantly far from campus, past Fortieth-Street and on?

DW: Well, you know the Kappa house and the Alpha Tau Omega house were clear over on Kingman, about Thirty-Fifth, that’s quite a ways from campus, but I don’t know, I think they walked or took the—had cars; I don’t know, I wasn’t in either of those fraternities. I was in SAE [Sigma Alpha Epsilon Fraternity] on Thirty-Fourth Street. But that’s about as far as I know of anybody living. Some of the people who lived at home may have lived further; I think there were significant number of Des Moines people who went to Drake at that time. Some of them probably lived on the East Side, and they would have to have a car, have some means of transportation. The streetcar system at that time was pretty adequate in Des Moines; you could get around very well with streetcars. They ran on tracks in the middle of the street. They had—the whole city was covered by streetcars. So you know it wasn’t any problem to have public transportation. (30:45-32:21)

GR: And those streetcars stopped at Drake?

DW: What’s that?

GR: The streetcars stopped at Drake. Or that was apart of their route?

DW: Yes, that was apart of the—and then they took out the streetcars and they had Curbliner [trolley buses]––and they took out the tracks in the middle of the street and had buses that ran on those electric lines where the streetcars used to run, electricity overhead. And then the buses ran, and they would go up to the—they called them Curbliner because they would come to the curb and pick you up, rather than they had to go out in the middle of the street and get on the streetcar. So that was right after the war, that was popular, but there was always a good system of public transportation in Des Moines. The University always had a car on it, a streetcar. When I was there it started on Forty-Eight—[makes quick correction] Forty-Ninth Street by Waveland Golf Course, and had a turn around there; I would go down there and get on the streetcar, clear down to Twenty-Fifth Street, Drake, get off, go to class, get back on at Twenty-Fifth and go up Forty-Eighth Street. And then walk down to my aunt and uncle’s house or go to my board job at the Waveland Café; it wasn’t the Waveland Café but in the same building that is there today. (32:32 to 34:05)

GR: I am interested in this sort of—this closeness and this intimacy in your day-to-day living in that you can just, you know—you’re surrounded by Drake students in your boarding situation, and then you get up and you go to school and it seems, for lack of a better word, close.

DW: It was, well, I think the Depression was a close time. You know we were all in the same boat: Most everybody was barely able to make it; nobody had a whole lot of money. As I say, we had one convertible in our fraternity house at that time. I bet now that practically every student in a fraternity has a car. Totally different situation today. And we all went to class together, pretty friendly arrangement. (34:00 to 35:29)

GR: Is it possible to contrast your experience, your living experience in the fraternity as opposed to living in the boarding house? Do you recall significant differences?

DW: As I indicated, the fraternity house had meals as well as a room. That’s the only real difference. And we had parties and social facili—and social events all the time. None of that was available in my rooming house. We didn’t have parties; we were in an attic for crying out loud. We didn’t have dances or things like that, you know, social events, we didn’t have women up there. There were never any women that I ever saw in there at all. And men and women were segregated completely, the dorms and everywhere. So in the fraternity, of course, we had women in the social rooms, and it was a far different social life. But other than that, as far as the adequacy of bathroom facilities and all that were about the same. (35.55 to 37:13)

GR: What kinds of commercial properties were there by Drake while you were attending?

DW: Well, I’m trying to think, it wasn’t as nearly as commercial as it is today. Basically as I remember it, Twenty-Fifth Street only had a book store and a movie theatre, the movie theater was there and the corner was a—I can’t remember what was on the corner, might have been a drug store. And then down that street from Twenty-Fifth to Twenty-Fourth on University was pretty much filled with various businesses a lot of—several eating places and some other commercial places like laundries and things like that. Maybe even a store that sold book supplies and things, but it wasn’t—it didn’t stretch, as I remember, past Twenty-Fourth [east of Twenty-Fourth Street on University Avenue] on down as it does today, down by the Mars Café and those places. I don’t think there were any places that Drake students attended beyond Twenty-Fourth Street. And there weren’t places up Twenty-Fifth [south of University Avenue] like there are today, the [Drake] Diner wasn’t there, of course, and the flower shop [Irene’s]; the church [First Christian Church, then called University Place Christian Church] was there, but there weren’t any commercial places up Twenty-Fifth Street as there are today. Quite a limited Dogtown, but it was still there. (37:48 to 39:45)

GR: The accommodations that weren’t provided in your living space, in your room, you could easily walk down and they [the accommodations] were available not too far away from campus?

DW: Right, it was a half block. I think rather than being where the Dial building is, as I remember, it was the second from the corner, and it would be where the parking lot is now, Dial parking lot, rather than where the Dial building is, where that house was that I was in. (40:15 to 40:39)

GR: Were there other houses surrounding that?

DW: Yes.

GR: How many?

DW: Well, I think there were at least three on that street. Could have been four, I don’t know, I can’t remember exactly, but it was residential. I mean it was totally residential and so was beyond Twenty-Fourth and the next street was residential. Most of the areas around Drake were residential. In fact, it was rather—Carpenter was residential on the next block, you know where the music, where the fine arts is today, that wasn’t there of course, and that was residential. Drake kept buying up houses around them and then tearing them down and building buildings. They weren’t there before the war. Pretty much of a small campus, Twenty-Fifth to Twenty-Eight Street, still had the field house and the athletic field, but that was separated from the campus, you know, a block or two away. All of our basketball games were played in the field house, where now you don’t—I don’t know what they do in there, they have the athletic business offices, but they don’t do much else. They have some—those games in the Drake Relays they do some indoor competitions in there, but they don’t do much. Hard to believe it used to be a basketball court, with public, you know, two to three thousand people there, three or four maybe, I don’t remember, but that’s where the games were. ( 40:45 to 42:34)

GR: The area you just described to me, do you recall if that was open for students to live in? As you mentioned it was all residential.

DW: Most of those places—you know, it was the Depression and you know, if you had extra room, if you had children and they occupied them, you didn’t rent them out. But if kids went away to college, you had two or three rooms available, you could rent them out, you rented them out. And that’s what happened, all in the Drake neighborhood. The Drake neighborhood was, you know, I would say high percentage of the buildings in the Drake neighborhood had students, not one hundred percent, but maybe 75 percent. (42.44 to 43:29)

GR: And do you recall if anybody was hesitant about letting students live in their house?

DW: Well I don’t know, I didn’t know that many local people, so I couldn’t tell you. I assume some didn’t want students in there, ’cause students have a way of, you know, coming in late, being a little wild and some of them probably just didn’t want to put up with it, I imagine; but I don’t know that, but I would gather that. ( 43:48 to 44:07)

GR: Yeah.

GR: Do you miss any lost buildings, what I mean by that is buildings that aren’t there any more that have been torn down?

DW: Drake buildings? Well, there may have been some temporary war buildings but other than that, I don’t think of any. All the buildings that I knew are still there in one form or another. And there are a lot of new buildings. Most of the buildings there around, between, Carpenter and University, and Twenty-Fifth and Twenty-Eighth, anything beyond those except for the field house and the athletic field are all new, after the war. (44:28 to 45:14)

GR: Can you recall what the impact of the modern campus was? It says here including new dormitories beginning in the late 1950s in terms of the university’s image.

DW: I wasn’t there, I really don’t know. I would assume a lot more people lived on campus than previously. Which would mean that fewer dorm spaces out in the community, but I don’t know that, I wasn’t there. I wasn’t even in Des Moines; I was in Davenport for twelve years after I graduated. (45:40-46:13)

GR: Was there a minority and international population at Drake?

DW: No. I can say there wasn’t a large one. There were a smattering of minorities; very few international students. There were some. Very few minorities. There were some blacks, not a great number but a smattering. They certainly weren’t excluded from any activity, they could live in the dorms, it was a very open campus, there just weren’t very many. (46:43 to 47:30)

GR: Did you recall if any of them lived in off-campus housing like you?

DW: No, I don’t know where they lived. I knew one black student rather well and I think he lived with his parents who lived in the neighborhood actually. At that time the neighborhoods were segregated; not by design but it just happened. You know the black neighborhood nearby at Drake between Seventeenth [street] and Nineteenth [street] and Forest and up in that area, there are a lot of black people living up in there, at that time, and there still are. So they had access to the university. Weren’t very many Spanish people and the immigration—we didn’t have a huge immigration of minorities at that time when I was in school. I came from a town that was probably a third minorities and all of them did well, all of them had opportunities to go to college, if they were bright enough they had all kinds of opportunities and they most—many of them did take advantage of that; so minorities were not a problem, not a big problem. At least in Iowa; now I can’t speak for California, where they had problems with the Japanese; you know they interned them during the war, a terrible thing I think, a terrible thing to happen to these people, but there wasn’t much of that in the Midwest. (47:43 to 50:14)

GR: So your freshman year, did you live with you parents previously before coming to Drake?

DW: Yes.

GR: Did your living conditions at home, were they better than what you had on campus?

DW: About the same.

GR: The same.

DW: About the same.

GR: I ask that because I know of a few students, their living conditions are just so different from when they come on to campus; they’re not used to being in a dorm room and sharing a space.

DW: Well, I always had brothers. Sharing bathrooms was never a problem for me. I did it for the first twenty-five years of my life. And showers were not common, you know, we had bathtubs, which are a thing of the past anymore. (51:08 to 51:37)

GR: Was there a bathtub in your boarding house?

DW: Yes.

GR: Communal?

DW: It was a community room. We had kind of a range—there was only one bathtub for about, I don’t know how many, for about eight or ten people, so you had to, you know, take a number. “When are you going to do it?” “When are you going to do it?” —that type of thing. And hot water was a problem. A lot of the hot water systems in homes were built around their furnaces, and only if the furnace was on would you have hot water. Anybody that had a large number of people would ordinarily have hot water. (51.46 to 52:35)

GR: Who cleaned?

DW: What?

GR: Who cleaned the bathtub?

DW: I think everybody was supposed to do their own, but I don’t remember much about that. I don’t remember much about the bath—I didn’t think it was a problem because I don’t remember it being a problem, even when I lived with my aunt and uncle and when I lived on Carpenter. So it must have been adequate or I would have moved out and gone somewhere else. (52:45 to53:13)

GR: On that note, do you recall any problems?

DW: No, I don’t. That’s what I’m saying, I don’t remember much about it. I know daily showering, which I have been doing now for the last—I don’t remember how many years, was not common in that time, baths you didn’t take. You know it used to be said you took a bath every Saturday night whether you needed one or not. Baths were once- or twice-a-week occasions, and you just didn’t bath as much. And during the service, I’d go for months without even having a shower ’cause we didn’t have—we lived in tents overseas, no shower facility. (53:20 to 54:25)

GR: So did your perception—

DW: What?

GR: Did your perception of student housing change when you came back from the war?

DW: Well I wasn’t—you know, I lived in the fraternity house, I didn’t think much about others, I didn’t know whether they had a hard time or not getting housing. I doubt if they did. I know Drake had gone down to the point where they had very few students during the war. They were fortunate to have some Army students from the time, I don’t know but they didn’t—they weren’t there very long and the population of students almost depleted. They were just limping along. They were happy to see the war over and the big influx of students again. There were women there. There was quite a few women. (54:46 to 55:45)

GR: I’m told that students, some students lived in trailers.

DW: There was a trailer village. Married students lived in trailers. And a lot of law students and graduate students and people who had been in the service for four or five years had come back, and get married; they had trailers that you could either rent or buy. I don’t know where Drake’s trailer village was, I’m very familiar with Iowa City’s because that’s where I was, and we had a huge trailer village on the river in Iowa City, and the library is now there. And then they had besides trailers—and I think Drake had some of these too, what they called barracks. Where you’d have two or three bedrooms—two bedrooms—living units for families, some families had children. So they had these barracks. All those are gone, you know, they have been taken down. But Drake had a trailer village; my brother [Raymond Wine] lived in one for a period of time and then he got an apartment and a home; he went to Drake, too.(55:57 to 57:29)

GR: Did he tell you anything about his experience in the trailer?

DW: Well I don’t think he was very happy there; he got out of there quite quickly. I think they lived there maybe a month or two. Like I did in Iowa City, as soon as I could get out of the trailer, I did. We lived there six months or so. You know I think we lived there a year, almost a year, Mary and I, in a trailer. And that was with common facilities in the middle of the trailer camp, men on one side and women on the other. I had to go in there for anything, any toilet facilities, no facilities in the trailers, and this is Iowa City. Now I wasn’t at Drake, at that time. I don’t know much about Drake’s but I assume it was about the same. Well that’s about it, isn’t it? (57:39 to 59:00)

GR: Yes

End of Transcription.

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